From: Report No. CDS-41-08:
Bay Beach Development/Seeking A Private/Public Partnership Opportunity
See: Appendix 1 To Administrative Report CDS-079-08 October 20, 2008 File No. 120902 (page 10)
"Development attitudes are changing to public beach land: i.e. developers value the fact that waterfront lands are kept in PUBLIC ownership. It brings more people to their site, in which in turn creates a higher profile for the site and allows for potentially lucrative interaction between public and private portions of the development"
Thanks for that info. I will be using it in my written submission to the town against the Molinaro Project.
ReplyDeleteHas anyone heard any results of the meeting that was posted in the St. Catharines Standard?
ReplyDeleteHere is the link:
http://www.stcatharinesstandard.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2222015
I see no problem here. The developer and the PUBLIC are interacting for the benefit of both parties.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous above...
ReplyDeleteYour use of the words "developer" and "PUBLIC" in the same sentence just don't seem to have the same meaning as "developers value the fact that waterfront lands are kept in PUBLIC ownership".
John
I didn't post it from the official record--you did and it is true. The waterfront lands will remain in the public domain and the area will be enhanced to attract more people to the site.
ReplyDeleteAre you suggesting that the proposed location of the condominium site is not waterfrontland?
ReplyDeleteWaterfront land is the current public beach that will remain in the public domain. Would you claim that all land south of Erie Road is "water front land"?
ReplyDeleteCertainly anything adjacent to the beach would be considered WATER FRONT LAND (as in THE WATER IS LOCATED IN FRONT OF THE LAND).
ReplyDeleteI really hope you're not going to tell me the properties, along the bay, on the south side of Erie road, are not WATER FRONT because they aren't built on the beach?
So the cottages on the hill and the parking lot across from SCC are waterfront land? How far does your "waterfront" extend. Actually the BEACH IS LOCATED IN FRONT OF THE WATERFRONT AND THE REST OF THE LAND IS LOCATED IN FRONT OF THE BEACH.
ReplyDeleteOn "the hill"...water front? No question about it!
ReplyDeleteThose are water front cottages !!!!!!
I suggest you take a look at some real estate listings my friend. If you're going to "hang your hat" on the last sentence of you post I really don't think folks are going to "buy it" (I know, bad pun, but hey we're amongst friends)
Regards,
John
It was a terrible pun :)
ReplyDeleteHow much did real estate listings mean to the people that bought property next to the golf course? Of course the ralator is going to describe property to his best advantage.
Since all of the property in question is south of Erie road is that your beachfront line of demarcation?
Terrible Indeed:)
ReplyDeleteAnd you are correct. Trusting a real-estate agent's definition would not be wise (I know too many).
Let's be specific to the proposed project. There is NO question, in my mind, that the area being considered for the buildings construction is water front land (property). That being the case, I categorically oppose the transfer of any of the land, we all call The Bay Beach Properties ,because the beach ,the land adjacent to it, as well as the 2 parking lots across Erie Rd. are ALL part of a Public Water Front Park. As they say "that's my story and I'm stickin' to it".
It's not blind opposition to development that influences me, hell I'm a union tradesmen who's livelihood depends on buildings. I advocate the loss of this land from public ownership is NOT in our town's best interest. I also believe we can find the resources to construct the amenities, we would all like to see on the site, by means other than what is proposed in this plan.
Your thoughts?
If I were to believe that the property north of Erie Road is waterfront then by extending the line of Erie Road I would have to believe that we have a waterfront sewage plant.
ReplyDeleteYou can do whatever you want with "lines" and "what not". The beach, the sand dune area, the snack bar, and the parking lots north of Erie Rd. are ALL part of an existing Public Waterfront Park.
ReplyDeleteSemantics nor imaginary line can't change that. Only an act of Council can transfer public land to private ownership.
Hey. See you at the "Polar Bear Dip"?
I'm going to try to make it if I can get past the Lake Erie neap tide lapping against the Royal Bank. :)
ReplyDeleteNow that's FUNNY.I LOVE IT !
ReplyDeleteLet's hope for a great turn out on this balmy beach day.
Regards,
John
If this poster is correct, that the land south of Erie Rd. is not waterfront land...then everyone who owns a house on the south side of Erie Rd., MacDonald Drive, Thunder Bay Rd, Edgemere, etc. should be appealing their taxes...because they are paying waterfront taxes...the Town's own definition on the Tax Rolls.
ReplyDeleteYou do not pay taxes based on where you live. You pay taxes on the assessed value of your property.
ReplyDeleteYou're right...and if you live in a house on a waterfront lot you're assessed value will be much higher because of the very fact that it is waterfront.
ReplyDeleteIt is assessed at the same rate as every other house.
ReplyDeleteHaha...talk about splitting hairs. Taxes are made up from multiplying 2 numbers...1 is the mill rate determined by the town and the other number is the assessed value determined by MPAC. While it is true that the same mill rate is used for waterfront and non-waterfront properties....there is no question that waterfront properties are assessed higher, because location is one of the biggest factors in determining a "market value".
ReplyDeleteOf course they are assessed higher because they are worth more in re-sale value the determining factor used by MPAC (not the town) in setting the assessment. Do you really believe that a 5-bedroom, 3-bath home on a large lot located anywhere in town should be assessed at the same amount as a 3 room shack in skunk hollow.
ReplyDeletePlease engage brain before using keyboard fingers.
So I think we can all agree that the proposed project building site is in fact, publicly owned waterfront property, where a Town Park is currently located.
ReplyDeletePlease do not attempt to speak for ALL of us. I will go so far as to agree that all of the land in question is owned by the Corporation of the Town of Fort Erie and that a portion of it is waterfront.
ReplyDeleteFair enough my friend.
ReplyDeleteMy intent was to find agreement, not "to put words in anyones mouth".
I am curious though. Aren't all the lands officially recognized as a Public Town Park?
Are they? I suppose it is a matter of sematics. For instance some people could describe "waterfront" as high or low level.
ReplyDeleteWhat do you mean by "officially recognized".
I could describe it as a piece of property owned by the town of Fort Erie upon which a public park now exists. Similarly I could describe Aswood Avenue as a piece of property owned by the Town of Fort Erie upon which a public road now exists.
Actually I do not believe that the designation, official or otherwise has any bearing on the matter at hand.
Perhaps this will help
ReplyDeletehttp://www.town.forterie.ca/WebSite/tofeweb.nsf/0/A19472F1090DC0E5852575660051D39D?OpenDocument
See Figures 2 & 3 on the page.
The Bay Beach Properties are clearly labeled
"Specialized Parks" as is the case with "Waterfront Park & Boat Launch"
Now in ALL fairness, Bay Beach is NOT listed in the Parks page found at
http://www.town.forterie.ca/WebSite/tofeweb.nsf/0/1DD9B0529EAB7A578525743A0073783A?OpenDocument
MUST have been an oversight... (lol)
As for bearing? Respectfully, I believe it does matter.Perhaps this is what crystallizes our differences in opinion?
Your Thoughts?
Wether it is called "beachfront", "park", "parkland" "specialized park", etc. Has no bearing on the issue.
ReplyDelete"A rose by any other name is still a rose".